Open editing/limiting creation?

[Addison Berry]

So before our meeting (http://groups.drupal.org/node/163430 I wanted
to toss out my impressions and thoughts about the open editing trial
we are running. First, I want to say that I think it is going pretty
well. There was an initial "rush" after we announced and a number of
folks were just testing things out. That seems to have died down and
typically the edits I am seeing are good, helpful edits. I've not seen
anything spammy or purposely "vandalized" myself. Definitely more
edits overall and some of them need a little cleanup or guidance, but
that is no more than we get from new team members honestly. So,
overall I'd say that we should keep going with the open editing. We've
gotten some good help and fewer test/weirdness/spam with it (so far)
than we do with new page creation. Which leads me to....

One thing that has kinda bugged me for a while, and has also been
pointed out by other folks, is that while allowing anyone to create
new pages definitely adds to the knowledge, we get lots of test pages
and pages in the "wrong" place. Most people who test often make a
silly page in the Getting Started guide, which is the worst place for
cruft. Now, we are definitely moving forward on reorganizing the docs
(check out the redesign thread, http://groups.drupal.org/node/15965).
Once we figure out what we are doing and the best way to implement,
I'm inclined to keep a bit of a tighter rein on things. Now, I have
high hopes that the "speed bump" (http://drupal.org/node/307650) will
eventually get worked out and that will help to a degree and I think
completely cutting of page creation rights will end up losing some
valuable docs. Pure moderation also seems a bit too much for us right
now and people could end up with new content inaccessible for long
periods.

So, for now, I'm thinking about having a "holding" book. Basically we
could let people create new pages, but they would not get to choose
the location and it would go into a new book for this purpose. (We
would completely restrict the ability to choose a parent for folks
that edit as well, if they aren't on the docs team, so that people
don't create, then move.) I guess I'm thinking of a published
moderation queue. Then doc team and site maintainers could check the
book regularly, quickly deleting test and spam. We can assess good
book pages and place them appropriately. While they are "holding" they
will still be accessible to search and to authors who wish to improve
the page. Now I haven't thought it all through but I just wanted to
posit the idea and see what folks think - good, bad, different ideas.


- Addi (add1sun)
--------------------------------------
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[Shai Gluskin]

Addi and documentors,

+1

I really like the idea of creating a "New pages" book and restricting
"filing" to site maintainers and docs team members.

In addition to those nodes being instantly published, searchable and easily
accessible to their authors before they are "filed" --- is the new site
planning on any tagging goodness? Tags could also have the affect of making
this data more easily findable.

Shai

Post by Addison Berry
So before our meeting (http://groups.drupal.org/node/163430 I wanted
to toss out my impressions and thoughts about the open editing trial
we are running. First, I want to say that I think it is going pretty
well. There was an initial "rush" after we announced and a number of
folks were just testing things out. That seems to have died down and
typically the edits I am seeing are good, helpful edits. I've not seen
anything spammy or purposely "vandalized" myself. Definitely more
edits overall and some of them need a little cleanup or guidance, but
that is no more than we get from new team members honestly. So,
overall I'd say that we should keep going with the open editing. We've
gotten some good help and fewer test/weirdness/spam with it (so far)
than we do with new page creation. Which leads me to....
One thing that has kinda bugged me for a while, and has also been
pointed out by other folks, is that while allowing anyone to create
new pages definitely adds to the knowledge, we get lots of test pages
and pages in the "wrong" place. Most people who test often make a
silly page in the Getting Started guide, which is the worst place for
cruft. Now, we are definitely moving forward on reorganizing the docs
(check out the redesign thread, http://groups.drupal.org/node/15965).
Once we figure out what we are doing and the best way to implement,
I'm inclined to keep a bit of a tighter rein on things. Now, I have
high hopes that the "speed bump" (http://drupal.org/node/307650) will
eventually get worked out and that will help to a degree and I think
completely cutting of page creation rights will end up losing some
valuable docs. Pure moderation also seems a bit too much for us right
now and people could end up with new content inaccessible for long
periods.
So, for now, I'm thinking about having a "holding" book. Basically we
could let people create new pages, but they would not get to choose
the location and it would go into a new book for this purpose. (We
would completely restrict the ability to choose a parent for folks
that edit as well, if they aren't on the docs team, so that people
don't create, then move.) I guess I'm thinking of a published
moderation queue. Then doc team and site maintainers could check the
book regularly, quickly deleting test and spam. We can assess good
book pages and place them appropriately. While they are "holding" they
will still be accessible to search and to authors who wish to improve
the page. Now I haven't thought it all through but I just wanted to
posit the idea and see what folks think - good, bad, different ideas.
- Addi (add1sun)
--------------------------------------
Join us at Do It With Drupal!
A large scale, curated education event
December 10-12, New Orleans
http://www.doitwithdrupal.com
--
Pending work: http://drupal.org/project/issues/documentation/
List archives: http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/documentation/

[Angela Byron]

Post by Addison Berry
So, for now, I'm thinking about having a "holding" book. Basically we
could let people create new pages, but they would not get to choose
the location and it would go into a new book for this purpose. (We
would completely restrict the ability to choose a parent for folks
that edit as well, if they aren't on the docs team, so that people
don't create, then move.) I guess I'm thinking of a published
moderation queue. Then doc team and site maintainers could check the
book regularly, quickly deleting test and spam. We can assess good
book pages and place them appropriately. While they are "holding" they
will still be accessible to search and to authors who wish to improve
the page. Now I haven't thought it all through but I just wanted to
posit the idea and see what folks think - good, bad, different ideas.

I'll preface this by saying that I'm normally Ms. No Barriers to
Contribution. This is a very good compromise suggestion.

However. We should also think about "what if?" for create book page
permissions globally locked down to only docs team members.

This would offer several benefits:

1. No more spam/test pages appearing in the getting started guide, which
is most peoples' first impressions of Drupal's documentation. Not cool.
Of course, your proposal would deal with this too, but it requires code.

2. Docs team members have a good sense of what books are available and
where things go, because they have their heads in this all the time. New
users typically don't, so they'll stick stuff in a totally different
section or duplicates pages that already exist. Requiring non-docs team
members to add an issue for pages they'd like to add, with the text of
the page in there, would allow docs team members to review new additions
and head these situations off at the pass (oh, actually this page
already exists at X. Why not edit that so that it includes the nice
clarifications you have here?). In this way it would sort of be like the
patch contributor / module maintainer roles we have with development
projects.

3. With editing open to anyone, there is no longer a big incentive for
joining the docs team, I don't think. While the docs team at the moment
is a powerhouse of awesomeness, over time people get busy with things,
and it's important to constantly have an influx of new blood. So making
a "Ok, we trust you enough based on your edit contributions to give you
create page rights now" thing might be a nice way to reward those who
are doing a great job.

Mind you, I've obviously had my head in a totally different space the
past few months, so I could be wildly off base.

[Addison Berry]

Post by Angela Byron
However. We should also think about "what if?" for create book page
permissions globally locked down to only docs team members.

Overall I'm inclined to not cut it off entirely, but I'm definitely
open to talking about that as an option. I'd really like other team
members to weigh in on this. :-) My responses inline.

Post by Angela Byron
1. No more spam/test pages appearing in the getting started guide, which
is most peoples' first impressions of Drupal's documentation. Not cool.
Of course, your proposal would deal with this too, but it requires code.

Some code, not that much I'd say. Check if the person is on the team
and, if not, form_alter the parent selector.

Post by Angela Byron
2. .... Requiring non-docs team
members to add an issue for pages they'd like to add, with the text of
the page in there, would allow docs team members to review new
additions
and head these situations off at the pass (oh, actually this page
already exists at X. Why not edit that so that it includes the nice
clarifications you have here?). In this way it would sort of be like the
patch contributor / module maintainer roles we have with development
projects.

I feel like requiring people to make an issue means people simply
won't do it at all and they'll just post on their personal blog,
dispersing the info even further. According to handbook stats more
pages are created by non-team members: "Of the 23 added, 16 were
created by people not on the documentation team" I'd rather let people
make the pages and then we do that same monitoring and feedback
without making them do the hoop dance. It would be similar to patch
review, but docs is not code and trying to make docs follow code
processes and conventions is one of the "problems" we are currently
trying to get away from honestly. ;-)

Post by Angela Byron
3. With editing open to anyone, there is no longer a big incentive for
joining the docs team, I don't think.

Well you still need to be on the team to use the doc format, which
allows images.

Post by Angela Byron
While the docs team at the moment
is a powerhouse of awesomeness, over time people get busy with things,
and it's important to constantly have an influx of new blood. So making
a "Ok, we trust you enough based on your edit contributions to give you
create page rights now" thing might be a nice way to reward those who
are doing a great job.

Fewer people create new pages than most other activity in docs. I do
plan to make the doc team more "special" as we move forward but I
guess I personally don't see that as much of a reward. Perhaps I'm
wrong on that one though and so it is something to consider.


- Addi (add1sun)
--------------------------------------
Join us at Do It With Drupal!
A large scale, curated education event
December 10-12, New Orleans
http://www.doitwithdrupal.com
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[Angela Byron]

Hmmm! Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your
newsletter. ;)

Yep, you did a good job shooting down all of the arguments I could think
of for locking it down, so +1 for this direction. :)

Post by Addison Berry

Post by Angela Byron
However. We should also think about "what if?" for create book page
permissions globally locked down to only docs team members.

Overall I'm inclined to not cut it off entirely, but I'm definitely
open to talking about that as an option. I'd really like other team
members to weigh in on this. :-) My responses inline.

Post by Angela Byron
1. No more spam/test pages appearing in the getting started guide, which
is most peoples' first impressions of Drupal's documentation. Not cool.
Of course, your proposal would deal with this too, but it requires code.

Some code, not that much I'd say. Check if the person is on the team
and, if not, form_alter the parent selector.

Post by Angela Byron
2. .... Requiring non-docs team
members to add an issue for pages they'd like to add, with the text of
the page in there, would allow docs team members to review new additions
and head these situations off at the pass (oh, actually this page
already exists at X. Why not edit that so that it includes the nice
clarifications you have here?). In this way it would sort of be like the
patch contributor / module maintainer roles we have with development
projects.

I feel like requiring people to make an issue means people simply
won't do it at all and they'll just post on their personal blog,
dispersing the info even further. According to handbook stats more
pages are created by non-team members: "Of the 23 added, 16 were
created by people not on the documentation team" I'd rather let people
make the pages and then we do that same monitoring and feedback
without making them do the hoop dance. It would be similar to patch
review, but docs is not code and trying to make docs follow code
processes and conventions is one of the "problems" we are currently
trying to get away from honestly. ;-)

Post by Angela Byron
3. With editing open to anyone, there is no longer a big incentive for
joining the docs team, I don't think.

Well you still need to be on the team to use the doc format, which
allows images.

Post by Angela Byron
While the docs team at the moment
is a powerhouse of awesomeness, over time people get busy with things,
and it's important to constantly have an influx of new blood. So making
a "Ok, we trust you enough based on your edit contributions to give you
create page rights now" thing might be a nice way to reward those who
are doing a great job.

Fewer people create new pages than most other activity in docs. I do
plan to make the doc team more "special" as we move forward but I
guess I personally don't see that as much of a reward. Perhaps I'm
wrong on that one though and so it is something to consider.
- Addi (add1sun)
--------------------------------------
Join us at Do It With Drupal!
A large scale, curated education event
December 10-12, New Orleans
http://www.doitwithdrupal.com
--
Pending work: http://drupal.org/project/issues/documentation/
List archives: http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/documentation/

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[Emma Jane Hogbin]

Post by Addison Berry
So, for now, I'm thinking about having a "holding" book. Basically we
could let people create new pages, but they would not get to choose
the location and it would go into a new book for this purpose. (We

I would be +1 for this especially if they can recommend the place where
they think it ought to go (I am not always qualified to have an opinion
on where something should go, but it would be cool if I could help to
triage). In round XYZ of the redesign hopefully the "book/page
placement" will be less critical and it will be the use of appropriate
tags that will determine the placement of content.

emma :)

[Addison Berry]

Post by Emma Jane Hogbin

Post by Addison Berry
So, for now, I'm thinking about having a "holding" book. Basically we
could let people create new pages, but they would not get to choose
the location and it would go into a new book for this purpose. (We

I would be +1 for this especially if they can recommend the place where
they think it ought to go (I am not always qualified to have an opinion
on where something should go, but it would be cool if I could help to
triage). In round XYZ of the redesign hopefully the "book/page
placement" will be less critical and it will be the use of appropriate
tags that will determine the placement of content.

Agreed! Definitely looking forward to not having the hard structural
issues we have now once we redesign. I agree on the suggestion and
folks could put that in the log, but I'm not sure of the best way to
solicit that info.

- Addi (add1sun)
--------------------------------------
Join us at Do It With Drupal!
A large scale, curated education event
December 10-12, New Orleans
http://www.doitwithdrupal.com

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